February 2012

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Good response.
Even if government stimulus programs create jobs, they are jobs that satisfy the demand of politicians and bureaucrats, which is not the same as consumer demand. Presumably they need continuing political demand and government spending in order to exist. And rent-seeking is never mentioned by their supporters.
The WSJ weekend edition has an article "Opinions Split on Job Creation," which cites a CBO report claiming that the policies with the most effect on employment are lowering payroll taxes for firms that hire new workers, and increasing payments to the unemployed. How raising unemployment "insurance" payments (i.e. subsidizing unemployment) leads to more jobs is a head scratcher.
It mentions that employers "say they are basing hiring decisions on business fundamentals." As opposed to political pull. I'll take economic calculations over political calculations any day. The former might lead to innovation, fulfillment of consumer demand, and jobs that are sustainable. The latter is less likely to result in real jobs, and more likely to lead to rent-seeking, bridges to nowhere, and monuments
to corrupt (but I repeat myself) politicians.

Steve
You wrote as an aside: "All I'll say here, at the risk of now pissing off some Austrians, is that for the "great recalculation" to work effectively, the money supply needs to be sufficient enough to prevent MV from falling but not so great as to restart the inflationary bubble".
In other words, for the system to be able to adjust, there must be a sufficient amount of "gas" in the tank for things to keep rolling. And between mid 06 and mid 08, when Nominal demand was growing satisfactorily, the adjustments (recalculations) were taking place. But "a crisis shouldn´t go to waste"...

To play devil's advocate, wouldn't a Keynesian say that the stimulus will come in primarily through one-off jobs like road construction, and that the increase in aggregate demand that results from the multiplier will bring about jobs matching the existing capital structure and consumer preferences? That is, the first round of spending maybe chosen bureaucratically and be abundant in pork, but, aside from wealth effects, the subsequent rounds of spending will be firmly in line with microfoundations?

The comments from Brad DeLong continue at ThinkMarkets. I must say, however, that I have never mastered the art of mixing ad hominem and economics arguments. I usually follow Karl Popper and simply deal with the scientific issues. But perhaps every method meets its rhetorical match. (Excuse me for using the word "rhetorical" in this corrupt way.)

Ryan M makes an interesting point for at least a small portion of the "stimulus" spending -- but Ryan, a good part of the money went to "save" jobs, especially in the public sector, in newly part-public companies that were bailed out etc

Also, if we have spend $787 billion plus TARP and other bailouts and other pork projects, totaling somewhere between 1.5 and 3 trillion this past couple of years toward "stimulus" then the amount that must be crowded out of private sector investment is significant. Given that the spending was all directed by politics, whether short or long term it has increased demand in certain capital markets, kept certain resources tied up in the things that politics has demanded, and so forth.

As some examples - major housing re-inflation through the Christmas Eve F&F bill, the anti-foreclosure measures etc; the propping up of GM, the broader car industry, manufacturing jobs, public sector jobs, health care and education jobs, most other sectors that have strong unions, etc.

I've been looking at the composition of the job gains, comparing 2007 and 2009 but so far the aggregate data (slightly dehomogenized) does not show significant sectoral changes. Still, it is not always that easy to see the effects.

A general point to keep in mind:

"It obviously endangers the freedom and the objectivity of our discussion if we attack a person instead of attacking an opinion or, more precisely, a theory."

-- Karl Popper

Well, yes.

It also endangers freedom and the objectivity of our discussions if we don't lay out the facts about who dealing honestly from a straight deck and who is lying and bullshitting everyone else -- e.g. it is VITAL to expose scientific fraud, as in the "climategate" case. Popper wouldn't have claimed otherwise.

Krugman openly endorses the scientific fraud of the climategate people, justifying it with the excuse that this just the behavior that is standard at the top of the economics profession.

It matters that Krugman and DeLong are dishonest people, and trade in bullshit and lies. Especially given that these folks are not only "scientists", they are also opinion leaders in the public debate.

Mario writes:

"A general point to keep in mind:

"It obviously endangers the freedom and the objectivity of our discussion if we attack a person instead of attacking an opinion or, more precisely, a theory."

-- Karl Popper"

Check out Glenn Hubbard's piece in today's Wall
Street Journal in which he offers an estimate of future crowding out.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704041504575045250168889076.html

Steve,
Considering the fact that the "saved jobs" were state and local government employees and we all know how value destroying these jobs are to the economy, I think you proved your point!

I'm sure we would have lots more people pumping gas and selling hamburgers at minimum wage, if only we would fire all those worthless school teachers cluttering up the state and local payrolls!

In life, we need to know that don‘t waste your time on a man/woman, who isn‘t willing to waste their time on you.

Interesting article. Were did you got all the information from... :)

Interesting article. Were did you got all the information from... :)

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